But AFAIK there is no viable alternative to invest in and have a product within two years, or is there?
But AFAIK there is no viable alternative to invest in and have a product within two years, or is there?
All the interesting new Research is in the laboratory phase it can take years even a decade before mass production, or what am I missing?
Most promising what I heard is the solid state battery but still very expensive and not mass producable.Not long ago there was a burst of press reports about Toyota being very close to mass production with solid state batteries. Toyota quickly corrected this, and said 2030 looks like a reasonable date. It took years to polish lithium batteries to be as safe and consistent as they are today (apart from the odd screw up, like the Samsung Note 7). Solid state batteries haven't even started down that polishing path yet.
QuoteNot long ago there was a burst of press reports about Toyota being very close to mass production with solid state batteries. Toyota quickly corrected this, and said 2030 looks like a reasonable date. It took years to polish lithium batteries to be as safe and consistent as they are today (apart from the odd screw up, like the Samsung Note 7). Solid state batteries haven't even started down that polishing path yet.The inventor is less pessimistic but he doesn't have that long:
https://about.bnef.com/blog/goodenough-making-progress-solid-state-batteries-qa/
Anyone know what they are doing in Germany with a combined heat, hot water and power generator?
https://youtu.be/wtDbfV5dsNs?t=6m14s
At this point, this thread is just a dumpster into which DougSpindler throws his baseless claims and ridiculously ignorant beliefs after doing a grand total of zero research on the relevant subjects. I am formally abandoning it. Sorry, Doug!
creidtble evidnece
creidtble evidneceSay what ?
This topic is the same on the other forum, some EV owners are very enthousiastic about their car even when they have to charge every 150 miles or have to walk, had to pay double the price of an ICE that has twice the room and four times the range and I can go on.
Hybrids are a different story.
But pure EV owners: fine for them but they are a minority of carowners trying to convince others to also buy one in a manner that resembles preachers trying to gain souls but forgetting that EVs are ludicrous expensive have very low range, can't pull a caravan or trailer and in Europe at least most countries have a terrible infrastructure where again you have to own local accounts to be able to use the charging poles.
It will change some time yes, but unless there are major breakthroughs in battery tech and this tech is product ready (mostly a 10 year period) for most people an EV is not a viable option for the coming 5 years even a decade.
creidtble evidneceSay what ?
This topic is the same on the other forum, some EV owners are very enthousiastic about their car even when they have to charge every 150 miles or have to walk, had to pay double the price of an ICE that has twice the room and four times the range and I can go on.
Hybrids are a different story.
But pure EV owners: fine for them but they are a minority of carowners trying to convince others to also buy one in a manner that resembles preachers trying to gain souls but forgetting that EVs are ludicrous expensive have very low range, can't pull a caravan or trailer and in Europe at least most countries have a terrible infrastructure where again you have to own local accounts to be able to use the charging poles.
It will change some time yes, but unless there are major breakthroughs in battery tech and this tech is product ready (mostly a 10 year period) for most people an EV is not a viable option for the coming 5 years even a decade.
Wow, do you work for Royal Dutch Shell ? Despite my math showing you the numbers to be very effective, you keep up these wild claims that EV is not a viable option.
Let's look at some of your claims
- Comparing a VW Golf vs VW eGolf isn't a valid comparison - you should compare an eGolf with the cheapest car on the market (this was my favourite)
- EV cars are double the price of an ICE. Perhaps when you're comparing a Tesla with a Yugo, but comparing like-sized/quality/trim levels, it simply isn't true. There's a small premium, paid off in 40-60,000km - again we demonstrated the math on both a VW and a Ford
- EV cars are somehow space compromised. - My eGolf is the same size inside as any other VW Golf, which I believe is in the top selling cars of all time.
It goes on and on. Between you and DougSpindler, you simply refuse to acknowledge the direction the world is going, and appear to have your own agenda.
On behalf of the people who want to discuss electric cars, I'm going to suggest that you and Doug go and start your own "Why Electric Cars Suck" thread, and leave this thread for serious, fact-based, discussion for the owners, and potential owners of electric cars.
Wow, do you work for Royal Dutch Shell ? Despite my math showing you the numbers to be very effective, you keep up these wild claims that EV is not a viable option.
Let's look at some of your claims
- Comparing a VW Golf vs VW eGolf isn't a valid comparison - you should compare an eGolf with the cheapest car on the market (this was my favourite)
- EV cars are double the price of an ICE. Perhaps when you're comparing a Tesla with a Yugo, but comparing like-sized/quality/trim levels, it simply isn't true. There's a small premium, paid off in 40-60,000km - again we demonstrated the math on both a VW and a Ford
- EV cars are somehow space compromised. - My eGolf is the same size inside as any other VW Golf, which I believe is in the top selling cars of all time.
It goes on and on. Between you and DougSpindler, you simply refuse to acknowledge the direction the world is going, and appear to have your own agenda.
On behalf of the people who want to discuss electric cars, I'm going to suggest that you and Doug go and start your own "Why Electric Cars Suck" thread, and leave this thread for serious, fact-based, discussion for the owners, and potential owners of electric cars.
Wow, do you work for Royal Dutch Shell ? Despite my math showing you the numbers to be very effective, you keep up these wild claims that EV is not a viable option.
Let's look at some of your claims
- Comparing a VW Golf vs VW eGolf isn't a valid comparison - you should compare an eGolf with the cheapest car on the market (this was my favourite)
- EV cars are double the price of an ICE. Perhaps when you're comparing a Tesla with a Yugo, but comparing like-sized/quality/trim levels, it simply isn't true. There's a small premium, paid off in 40-60,000km - again we demonstrated the math on both a VW and a Ford
- EV cars are somehow space compromised. - My eGolf is the same size inside as any other VW Golf, which I believe is in the top selling cars of all time.
It goes on and on. Between you and DougSpindler, you simply refuse to acknowledge the direction the world is going, and appear to have your own agenda.
On behalf of the people who want to discuss electric cars, I'm going to suggest that you and Doug go and start your own "Why Electric Cars Suck" thread, and leave this thread for serious, fact-based, discussion for the owners, and potential owners of electric cars.I think you mess me up with someone else but the points for our country seem right.
A Tesla S costs over €100k three times a very decent ice stationwagon like a VW Golf.
I am talking about EVs not hybrids something you seem to mess up all the times.
Tesla never made a $ profit, today they anounced a $5 billion investment in a China factory but they don't have the money so they want to raise capital in China.
Other car manufacturers like VW newest Golf8 coming out next year will have a small perhaps solid state battery to support the start stop system only, thats it no electric plan for this generation that lasts 6-8 years but they do shut down two of the four cylinders while driving, and I can go on.
Perhaps your government in Canada gives you half the money an EV costs to make it at least affordable but here it is only for business owners they can deduct the tax.
In Norway it seems to become a success but ask why, because the government throws huge amounts of money at it and due to their natural water reservoirs in the mountains they have almost free electricity. Good for them and I wish it was viable in other countries but I don't see it.
Here in Holland you goto the city park your car for two hours while charging and you get 20-30% load resulting in a 35 mile radius, two hours! That is if it was an ice the fuelpump would do one litre of fuel per hour. So wake up from your future utopia and get real talk to the middle class families that are the majority of car owners that want to go 1000km drive to go to holiday and drive 75km each day for work and none of them owns an EV or is going to buy an EV that is your reality.
Perhaps in 5-10 years it will be different but lots has to change.
The sign is clear: plug in hybrids would be the stopgap solution with most of the advantages of an EV but without the limited range problem that seems to be a showstopper for some.
The sign is clear: plug in hybrids would be the stopgap solution with most of the advantages of an EV but without the limited range problem that seems to be a showstopper for some.
It seems Hydrogen is not out of the race yet. Mercedes is about to release a new model:
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/mercedes-benz-glc-f-cell-2018-first-ride
And in the Netherlands they are going to add 11 more hydrogen fuel stations in the next year.
It seems Hydrogen is not out of the race yet. Mercedes is about to release a new model:
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/mercedes-benz-glc-f-cell-2018-first-ride
And in the Netherlands they are going to add 11 more hydrogen fuel stations in the next year.Electricity to hydrogen is wildly inefficient.
For the same efficiency you could just use zinc air batteries with existing technology, but the zinc air batteries can be both electrically and mechanically recharged.
It seems Hydrogen is not out of the race yet. Mercedes is about to release a new model:
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/mercedes-benz-glc-f-cell-2018-first-ride
And in the Netherlands they are going to add 11 more hydrogen fuel stations in the next year.Electricity to hydrogen is wildly inefficient.
It seems Hydrogen is not out of the race yet. Mercedes is about to release a new model:
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/mercedes-benz-glc-f-cell-2018-first-ride
And in the Netherlands they are going to add 11 more hydrogen fuel stations in the next year.Electricity to hydrogen is wildly inefficient.The Wikipedia article claims that efficiencies around 90% can be achieved. Even at 70 or 80 percent it isn't inefficient and probably more economically viable compared to storing electricity in batteries. For starters a Hydrogen tank doesn't wear so much as a battery.
The Wikipedia article claims that efficiencies around 90% can be achieved. Even at 70 or 80 percent it isn't inefficient and probably more economically viable compared to storing electricity in batteries. For starters a Hydrogen tank doesn't wear so much as a battery.