I hate not having a spare tire. guess luxury car owners want to have AAA or a butler do it. Could throw one in the Frunk.
I hate not having a spare tire. guess luxury car owners want to have AAA or a butler do it. Could throw one in the Frunk.
I might have underestimated how fast this goes.
Audi released their new E-SUV the e-tron today, costing a stunning startprice of €84000 in our country and $75000 in the US.
Still there are already 10000 pre-orders in Belgium
Can't believe this but if true it will go much faster than I anticipated.
They call it the e-car for the masses but at €84000 I know no-one that can afford it
Still I'm not sure the numbers quoted for the Tesla are right. AFAIK the Tesla needs about 250Wh per km from the 'socket on the wall'. With $0.45 per kWh that brings the cost to $0,11 per km. With $3.95 per gallon and an mileage of (let's stay conservative) 35MPG = 56kmPG you get a cost of $0.07 per km. With an efficient ICE car in the 45MPG range the fuel costs go down to little over $0.05 per km.
There sure is a large variation in the cost electricity and gas around the world. Even if the guy’s math is +/- 10% or even 20% he’s showing the energy cost for an EV and ICE are comparable. And if electricity coasts continue to rise faster than gas, electric cars will be more expensive to power. Now to be fair he’s not factoring on oil changes. But then again for the past 20 years I change the oil in my cars about once every 2 years or every 20,000 miles. So, for my figures add in another $20 per year on the ICE for oil changes.
Yet more cherry-picked numbers? You find me a car with a 20,000 mile oil change interval (most are 10,000 mile, maybe 15,000), and I'll show you a car which takes full synthentic oil. $20 wouldn't even buy the oil for an oil-change, which typically runs around $30+/5 qt.
I might have underestimated how fast this goes.
Audi released their new E-SUV the e-tron today, costing a stunning startprice of €84000 in our country and $75000 in the US.
Still there are already 10000 pre-orders in Belgium
Can't believe this but if true it will go much faster than I anticipated.
They call it the e-car for the masses but at €84000 I know no-one that can afford it
I hate not having a spare tire. guess luxury car owners want to have AAA or a butler do it. Could throw one in the Frunk.I've been stranded by a couple of car issues, but I have never used a spare tyre. I wonder what percentage of all "car won't go" incidents are actually helped by the presence of a spare tyre?
All for business. So no VAT, deductable from tax and environmental subsidies on top. A couple of years ago this would knock off about 75% of the retail price. I don't know the exact numbers right now but as a business you can still get an EV with hefty discounts.
I think the mass adoption of EVs will take a lot longer than may expect or wish for - unless there is more radical changes in the battery technology and/or cost than currently predicted.
I think the mass adoption of EVs will take a lot longer than may expect or wish for - unless there is more radical changes in the battery technology and/or cost than currently predicted.
I think that depends a lot of your jurisdiction. Here in Western Canada, the combination of cheap electricity (about £0.06/kWh) from hydro electric, and relatively (for north america) expensive gasoline (£0.88/l), it means that my EV energy consumption costs are about 1/8th of the same car with an internal combustion engine. FWIW I drive a VW eGolf. In jurisdictions with more expensive electricity, and cheaper gasoline, perhaps the numbers aren't quite so beneficial, but you'd be hard pressed to find any jurisdiction where they don't hold out.
I see about 17kWh/100km (consumption from the socket) on my VW eGolf @ C$0.093/kWh*1 (my EVSE measures, so I know the real numbers)
The same car (VW Golf) in ICE consumes about 8.5l / 100k*2 with typical gasoline prices @ C$1.49
Vancouver Canada
EV: C$1.58
ICE: C$12.67
In reality about 20-30% of my charging is done at free charging stations around town, so my direct costs are a little lower than that; but's lets assume worse case where I pay for every electron. The additional purchase price (about C$6k more vs the ICE version) will be paid off long before I get rid of the car, and the lower maintenance costs are just an added bonus that I haven't factored in.
If you ran the numbers in Southern California at 0.48/kWh and 3.95/gal (1.04/l) for fuel, the numbers are still better for an EV, although that advantage is marginal if you only charge using peak electricity rates. Luckily PG&E have specific tiered rate plans for EV owners to help them minimize costs.
Southern California
EV: $8.16 (day charging @ 0.48*3)
EV: $2.21 (overnight charging @ 0.13/kWh*3)
ICE: $8.84
Even in Europe, the numbers are such that an EV is well worth it, and assuming a smaller displacement VW Golf (@ 5.2l/100km or 54 ImpMPG) in the Netherlands @ 1.35/l , and electricity @ 0.22/kWh and fuel @ 1.35/l *4
Netherlands
EV: €3.74 (overnight rates would drop this slightly)
ICE: €7.02
references:
*1 https://app.bchydro.com/accounts-billing/rates-energy-use/electricity-rates/residential-rates.html
*2 https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/sites/www.nrcan.gc.ca/files/oee/pdf/transportation/tools/fuelratings/2018%20Fuel%20Consumption%20Guide.pdf
*3 https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/tariffbook/ELEC_SCHEDS_EV%20(Sch).pdf
*4 numbers as provided by nctnico in eevblog forum
Get ready to be called a troll by mtdoc. I posted the same rates for electricity in the San Francisco Bay Area by mtdoc and he called me a liar and a troll. I even provided the links the PG&E rates web page and mtdoc still called me a troll.
Get ready to be called a troll by mtdoc. I posted the same rates for electricity in the San Francisco Bay Area by mtdoc and he called me a liar and a troll. I even provided the links the PG&E rates web page and mtdoc still called me a troll.
What are you 13 years old?
You did nothing of the sort. You claimed that your electricity cost you 0.48 per kWh (and costs 0.86/kWh other places) and provided absolutely no proof of that. In fact what you did provide refuted that. Despite repeated requests to provide your location or document your rate you have not. The PGE website clearly refuted your claims.
As Boffin posted - even someplace where high TOU rates may be in force (as I said earlier do exist)- low rates are available for EV charging at other times and EV costs are lower then ICE.
You have over and over again since you joined this forum, made claims of facts which when asked, failed to provide any documentation or proof and when examined have proven to be false. You come in and out of these threads with nothing but bullshit and trolling nonsense.
Boffin has done what you and the anti EVers here have never done: Provided direct comparisons with references. What they clearly show is that EV fueling costs are lower than ICE across multiple locations.
I porived a link to the power compnay's web site where I purchase my power from. I stated they have rates as high as $0.862 per kWhr for some rates plans. My firend I just clicked on the link I provided to you previously. Here's a screenshot which proves PG&E does in fact charge between 2 and 6 pm as mush as $0.862 per hWhr. Dude click on the link and see for yourself PG&E charges upto $0.862 per kWhr.
The question has never been are there some places, somewhere, that at some heavy use times, charge ridiculously high electricity rates. Of course, we all know that is true. The issue is what will the cost of ownership be for a typical EV driver versus a typical ICE driver. Obviously, cost of fueling is the largest cost of ownership.
Anyone who picks $0.45/kWh as the point of comparison is being dishonest. Even in one of he most expensive electricity markets in the world (California) that price is rare and only applicable during high TOU hours which as any EV owner will tell you, is not what they will be paying.
Suggesting that $0.45/kWh is the price someone with an EV will commonly pay for electricity is just as dishonest as it would be claiming that typical ICE refuelling costs would be $8/gallon because there are places that charge that much.I porived a link to the power compnay's web site where I purchase my power from. I stated they have rates as high as $0.862 per kWhr for some rates plans. My firend I just clicked on the link I provided to you previously. Here's a screenshot which proves PG&E does in fact charge between 2 and 6 pm as mush as $0.862 per hWhr. Dude click on the link and see for yourself PG&E charges upto $0.862 per kWhr.
This is the link you provided. That page (as all can see) is a list of links to numerous spreadsheets with rates. Nowhere on that page can I find what you posted or a link to that graph (and the pic and your post give no info about where it comes from) Of course PGE has a large website with no doubt multple sublinks, etc - so it could be there somewhere. As I said it would not surprise me that someone at some location - in some exremely hight TOU scenario would pay that much. That is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. What is relevant is what most people pay most of the time and what an EV owner would pay when charging at low TOU hours.
What the link you provided does show directly contradicts your claims (and it is dishonest of you to imply otherwise). In multiple spreadsheets - it shows that in one of the most expensive electricity markets in the USA, electricity rates are no where near what you have claimed. Again here is a screen shot from the most recent, TOP, FRONT AND CENTER spreadsheet linked on that page. Other spreadsheets on that page that I've looked at show similar or lower rates (there are hundreds and I did not look at all of them).
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If you want to engage in constructive debate on this topic, back up all statements of fact with a linked reference and don't lie about what the links show (as any review of this thread will confirm you've repeatedly done).
The price at the superchargers is $0.26 per kWh. Plus taxes? IDK.
The price at the superchargers is $0.26 per kWh. Plus taxes? IDK.
And at non-superchargers? In California there some charging stations also make you pay for parking while you charge. So not only do you pay for the electricity to charge your car, one also has to pay for the space to park the car in so it can be charged.
Tesla”s web page pretty much agrees with what the guy in the video posted about energy costs between his Tesla EV and his ICE. Cost to power either is pretty much the same.
ICE - (21mpg, $2.85/gallon) = $204
Tesla charged via supercharger ($0.26/kWh) = $106
Tesla charged via supercharger ($0.26/kWh) = $106
Even in Europe, the numbers are such that an EV is well worth it, and assuming a smaller displacement VW Golf (@ 5.2l/100km or 54 ImpMPG) in the Netherlands @ 1.35/l , and electricity @ 0.22/kWh *4