Nope, and Nope.
1) Tesla makes an average of 24% on each and every vehicle sold. The losses come from investing more than that profit into growth.
2) GM/Opel make huge losses on the Bolt/Opel Ampera-e because they produce it in homeopathic quantities. If the volume would go up to 1e6/Y
- Better sourcing agreements, especially for batteries -> much cheaper battery
- every year, the cost of batteries drom 25-30% anyway.
This will all happen next year as EVs are now seriously taking off due to financial, market pressure, and regulations on emissions.
Volts just as Teslas are sold with huge losses.
I don't think GM likes 1e06 Volts sold, it would bankrupt them.
Volts just as Teslas are sold with huge losses.
I don't think GM likes 1e06 Volts sold, it would bankrupt them.
Nope, and Nope.
1) Tesla makes an average of 24% on each and every vehicle sold. The losses come from investing more than that profit into growth.
2) GM/Opel make huge losses on the Bolt/Opel Ampera-e because they produce it in homeopathic quantities. If the volume would go up to 1e6/Y, many things would happen to reduce the costs, and make that a profitable business:
- High dilution of fixed costs
- Better sourcing agreements, especially for batteries -> much cheaper battery
- redesign of the car to produce it at a lesser cost
- every year, the cost of batteries drom 25-30% anyway.
etcetcetc...
This will all happen next year as EVs are now seriously taking off due to financial, market pressure, and regulations on emissions.
Volts just as Teslas are sold with huge losses.
I don't think GM likes 1e06 Volts sold, it would bankrupt them.
Volts just as Teslas are sold with huge losses.
I don't think GM likes 1e06 Volts sold, it would bankrupt them.
Oh please! The initial FUD about Volts being sold at a loss, spread by the anti-EV crowd in 2012 after the Volts introduction, was based on the erroneous idea that if you divide the initial development costs of a new product with new technology by the first few years sales you are “selling them at a loss”.
Of course this ignores the fact that if the priduct is a success - as the Volt clearly has been- then after a few years those development costs will have been recouped. And of course that new technology will now also be available to employ in other products.
How many electronics products could be said to be “sold at a loss” using the same simple minded logic.?
On an engineering forum of all places the reality of development costs versus lifetime sales and profits should be understood. It’s shocking that some here might not get it.
GM sells over 20k Volts a year. I can assure you they are not being sold at a loss.
Volts just as Teslas are sold with huge losses.
I don't think GM likes 1e06 Volts sold, it would bankrupt them.
Oh please! The initial FUD about Volts being sold at a loss, spread by the anti-EV crowd in 2012 after the Volts introduction, was based on the erroneous idea that if you divide the initial development costs of a new product with new technology by the first few years sales you are “selling them at a loss”.
Of course this ignores the fact that if the priduct is a success - as the Volt clearly has been- then after a few years those development costs will have been recouped. And of course that new technology will now also be available to employ in other products.
How many electronics products could be said to be “sold at a loss” using the same simple minded logic.?
On an engineering forum of all places the reality of development costs versus lifetime sales and profits should be understood. It’s shocking that some here might not get it.
GM sells over 20k Volts a year. I can assure you they are not being sold at a loss.
Volts just as Teslas are sold with huge losses.
I don't think GM likes 1e06 Volts sold, it would bankrupt them.
Oh please! The initial FUD about Volts being sold at a loss, spread by the anti-EV crowd in 2012 after the Volts introduction, was based on the erroneous idea that if you divide the initial development costs of a new product with new technology by the first few years sales you are “selling them at a loss”.
Of course this ignores the fact that if the priduct is a success - as the Volt clearly has been- then after a few years those development costs will have been recouped. And of course that new technology will now also be available to employ in other products.
How many electronics products could be said to be “sold at a loss” using the same simple minded logic.?
On an engineering forum of all places the reality of development costs versus lifetime sales and profits should be understood. It’s shocking that some here might not get it.
GM sells over 20k Volts a year. I can assure you they are not being sold at a loss.Your assurance is worth nil nada zilch because yes they are loosing money on each and every ev car, most recent articles still say so.
I heard about this LAST year when the PSA group bought the Opel/Vauxhall from GM which sells the Volt as the Opel Ampera at a loss of €10k per €45k car which is huge!
PSA stopped sales immediately.
Better Google and you see that GM hopes to make a profit on EVs in 2021 when battery prices keep on going down. i get it that an initial investment takes time to make a profit but we are talking about ten years. Some companies do not last ten years.
https://insideevs.com/gm-reportedly-suffered-12000-loss-per-ampera-e-bolt-sold-opel/
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-gm-electric-insight/gm-races-to-build-a-formula-for-profitable-electric-cars-idUSKBN1EY0GG
https://insideevs.com/moodys-says-automakers-lose-7000-to-10000-per-electric-car-sold/
BTW, what idiot at GM decided to have 2 cars whose name only differs by one letter?
Ah ok my mistake then, no I am only talking 100% EVs here, in Europe there are reserved parking spots for EVs to charge and hybrids are not allowed even (€250 fine)
Hybrids I already see as ntegrated and accepted, it is the full EV solution that is still problematic IMO and will take quite some time, i provements and cost reductionsto be as usable as ices and hybrids.
Ah ok my mistake then, no I am only talking 100% EVs here, in Europe there are reserved parking spots for EVs to charge and hybrids are not allowed even (€250 fine)
Hybrids I already see as ntegrated and accepted, it is the full EV solution that is still problematic IMO and will take quite some time, i provements and cost reductionsto be as usable as ices and hybrids.
It is not as much a public charging station as a parking spot which are reserved for EVs to charge.
An EV sometimes need hours of charging to get 20-40% while a hybrid often is charged within an hour and even with a flat battery it will run on its ice engine.
EV race cars are adding a new dimension to automobile racing.
I would never get an electric car until the total cost of ownership, per mile, for the life of the car, is less than a gas powered model. And is just as convenient to refuel. I don't care about the environment any more than Al Gore does. Which is zero! I need to get from point A to point B as inexpensively as possible.
Then you should get one now since there are several available for which lifetime cost of ownership is less than equivalent ICE and even more convenient to refuel. But I suspect you are really more just out to make a political statement.