Quoteit's a future that's worse than the present.Nope.
Yes, because the batteries we have are a very poor substitute for hydrocarbon fuels.
Quoteit's a future that's worse than the present.Nope.
Yes, because the batteries we have are a very poor substitute for hydrocarbon fuels.
A statement like that, without anything to back it up
In my (real world, I own one) case:
The Upsides
- 1/8th the Fuel Cost
- Lower Scheduled Maintenance Costs
- Lower emmissions
- Quietest car I've ever owned
The downsides
- higher acquisition cost (will be paid in 50-60,000km)
- lower range (approx 220km)
- 1hr to recharge (on a fast charger)
I would argue that for city dwellers, the upsides far outweigh the downsides. If you have long-haul distances involved, it's probably not for you. As long as you're driving less than 200km/day 95% of the time (which is almost everyone), EV is the way to go.
As for the "When will they become mainstream", the answer is approx 3 more years.
3 yrs: probably 20% market share, and 20% certainly counts as 'mainstream'
6 yrs: 50% market share
I think the next big leap in EV adoption is going to be delivery vans. I already see UPS trucks that are CNG, and I expect pretty much every new city-based UPS/FedEx/Postal truck will be electric within 5 years. All of those Mercedes Sprinter/Nissan NV/Ford Econoline/Ford Transit Connect you see in the city, they're all next.
As for the "When will they become mainstream", the answer is approx 3 more years.
3 yrs: probably 20% market share, and 20% certainly counts as 'mainstream'
6 yrs: 50% market share
ICE trolls are very active here.
You are offering subjective data when the guy in the Tesal video offered objective data. To do a fair compaision of energy costs to power both vehicals for about a year or 10,000 miles let's use the formulas the guy in the Tesla video provided.
What is the cost for electricy where you live?
How much is regular gas where you live?
We aren't factoring in the cost of the car, maitannce or anything else. What ware are trying to compare is the cost for the energy to provide power to the vehicle for 10,000 miles.
...
Maybe for some areas but I doubt that will be true for large countries / areas. An EV will be more expensive to buy for the foreseable future. Especially in Europe few people have a way to charge an EV on their own drive ways at home so most need to rely on public charging stations which aren't cheap. Then there will be the cost to upgrade the electricity distribution infrastructure.
...
[...]
California (3.49/USgal = 0.92/l, 0.48/kWh day, 0.13/kWh night)
Tesla: $7.73 (day)
Tesla: $2.09 (night)
Tesla: $4.19 (Tesla Supercharger 0.26/kWh)
Skoda: $4.05
[...]
Given the Tesla 3 competes against the BMW 3 series, Mercedes C, comparing it to the smaller Skoda is silly
[...]
Are you claiming that most Europeans don't have access to a normal outlet?
[...]
California (3.49/USgal = 0.92/l, 0.48/kWh day, 0.13/kWh night)
Tesla: $7.73 (day)
Tesla: $2.09 (night)
Tesla: $4.19 (Tesla Supercharger 0.26/kWh)
Skoda: $4.05
[...]
Given the Tesla 3 competes against the BMW 3 series, Mercedes C, comparing it to the smaller Skoda is silly
[...]
Sorry, watt?
Tesla Model 3 4.69 m
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_3
BMW 3 series 4.63 m
https://www.parkers.co.uk/bmw/3-series/saloon-2012/specs/
Mercedes-Benz C-Class 4.68 m
https://www.parkers.co.uk/mercedes-benz/c-class/saloon-2014/specs/
Skoda Octavia 4.68 m
https://www.parkers.co.uk/skoda/octavia/vrs-2013/specs/
LOL, I don't get it, @mtdoc ?Smaller != shorter.
LOL, I don't get it, @mtdoc ?Smaller != shorter.
Since when?
As there seems to be continuous argument over consumption numbers, here is a link to the Canadian official EV mileage numbers: https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/energy/efficiency/transportation/21363
that obnoxious Aussie dude's videos.
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Maybe for some areas but I doubt that will be true for large countries / areas. An EV will be more expensive to buy for the foreseable future. Especially in Europe few people have a way to charge an EV on their own drive ways at home so most need to rely on public charging stations which aren't cheap. Then there will be the cost to upgrade the electricity distribution infrastructure.
...
Firstly, you realize that next to Russia, I live the largest (physical) country in the world, right ?
Secondly, I've already shown that in my jurisdiction, an EV while more expensive, will easily pay for itself
Lastly, You are kidding, right?
From a European Shuko socket, you can obtain 230 @ 16A, or nearly 3kW (assuming continuous 80% load). That will easily change an EV overnight. Are you claiming that most Europeans don't have access to a normal outlet?
I know a number of North Americans who drive electric cars, charge them solely at home, using just 1kW chargers plugged into a NEMA 5-15. The charge available in 14-16 hrs that a vehicle is typically parked overnight is much greater than the average commute of a European. This website *1 implies the average Dutch person commutes on 22.6km each way. Assuming a 20kWh/100km vehicle, that's less than 10kWh, or just a few hrs to charge on a normal household 230V outlet.
*1 https://www.iamexpat.nl/career/employment-news/more-half-employees-netherlands-commute-work
...
Maybe for some areas but I doubt that will be true for large countries / areas. An EV will be more expensive to buy for the foreseable future. Especially in Europe few people have a way to charge an EV on their own drive ways at home so most need to rely on public charging stations which aren't cheap. Then there will be the cost to upgrade the electricity distribution infrastructure.
...
Firstly, you realize that next to Russia, I live the largest (physical) country in the world, right ?
Secondly, I've already shown that in my jurisdiction, an EV while more expensive, will easily pay for itself
Lastly, You are kidding, right?
From a European Shuko socket, you can obtain 230 @ 16A, or nearly 3kW (assuming continuous 80% load). That will easily change an EV overnight. Are you claiming that most Europeans don't have access to a normal outlet?
...
Maybe for some areas but I doubt that will be true for large countries / areas. An EV will be more expensive to buy for the foreseable future. Especially in Europe few people have a way to charge an EV on their own drive ways at home so most need to rely on public charging stations which aren't cheap. Then there will be the cost to upgrade the electricity distribution infrastructure.
...Firstly, you realize that next to Russia, I live the largest (physical) country in the world, right ?
Secondly, I've already shown that in my jurisdiction, an EV while more expensive, will easily pay for itself
Lastly, You are kidding, right?
From a European Shuko socket, you can obtain 230 @ 16A, or nearly 3kW (assuming continuous 80% load). That will easily change an EV overnight. Are you claiming that most Europeans don't have access to a normal outlet?You have to understand that cities in Europe are densily populated so most people don't have their own drive way. It is nothing like the US and Canada. Without your own driveway you can't charge an EV. And even if people have their own driveway it will only fit 1 car so how about charging the second car at the same time? All in all charging at home is a big no-go in Europe. The Dutch Automobile Association (RAI) has estimated that the NL needs 3 million public charging spots for EVs to be viable. That is more than 1 charging spot per 3 cars.
ICE trolls are very active here.
Indeed. They all 3 continue to ignore all the objective, referenced data presented. And I see Fact Free Doug is back to his old ways relying on that obnoxious Aussie dude's videos.
You have to understand that cities in Europe are densily populated so most people don't have their own drive way. It is nothing like the US and Canada. Without your own driveway you can't charge an EV.
You have to understand that cities in Europe are densily populated so most people don't have their own drive way. It is nothing like the US and Canada. Without your own driveway you can't charge an EV.
We've covered this ground before. There are densely populated cities in the US and Canada as well. It's also a fact that cities here and in Europe are surrounded by suburbs and countryside. That is where the use of automobiles is highest. Those living in densely populated city centers without a parking spot either do not own automobiles or if they do, they drive them infrequently (for obvious reasons!). For many that is a good thing and is one reason why they choose to live in a city center.
...
Maybe for some areas but I doubt that will be true for large countries / areas. An EV will be more expensive to buy for the foreseable future. Especially in Europe few people have a way to charge an EV on their own drive ways at home so most need to rely on public charging stations which aren't cheap. Then there will be the cost to upgrade the electricity distribution infrastructure.
...Firstly, you realize that next to Russia, I live the largest (physical) country in the world, right ?
Secondly, I've already shown that in my jurisdiction, an EV while more expensive, will easily pay for itself
Lastly, You are kidding, right?
From a European Shuko socket, you can obtain 230 @ 16A, or nearly 3kW (assuming continuous 80% load). That will easily change an EV overnight. Are you claiming that most Europeans don't have access to a normal outlet?You have to understand that cities in Europe are densily populated so most people don't have their own drive way. It is nothing like the US and Canada. Without your own driveway you can't charge an EV. And even if people have their own driveway it will only fit 1 car so how about charging the second car at the same time? All in all charging at home is a big no-go in Europe. The Dutch Automobile Association (RAI) has estimated that the NL needs 3 million public charging spots for EVs to be viable. That is more than 1 charging spot per 3 cars.I have family in France, Belgium, Spain, Switzerland and England.
Only my mother who has a flat on the edge of the Old Nice would struggle to home charge.
These are people living in the countryside, suburbia and inner cities.
Of all the places I have lived (28 moves in 40 years),