How do you convert waste plant material to bio fuel?
I know there are many ideas out there, but is there any factories doing this commercially? (please provide links if so).
Otherwise I don't see how that is any different than solar storage solutions (better batteries, etc).See poet-dsm.com (the DSM part is Dutch) but there are other companies as well who have a working process.
https://www.energy.gov/eere/bioenergy/poet-dsm-project-liberty
... At first you were talking about usain sugar cane and now you are talking about the bio-mass leftovers. You do realize there is an enormous energy difference between the two. Then by using the bio-mass leftovers you are not creating new soil and disrupting the ecological balance of the microorganisms in the soil. Something that’s really bad.
...
As Calrl Segan once said, extrodanary claims need require extrodanary evidense. I’m not saying I don’t beleive you, it’s just you have not provided the extrodanary evidence.
How do you convert waste plant material to bio fuel?
I know there are many ideas out there, but is there any factories doing this commercially? (please provide links if so).
Otherwise I don't see how that is any different than solar storage solutions (better batteries, etc).
... At first you were talking about using sugar cane and now you are talking about the bio-mass leftovers. You do realize there is an enormous energy difference between the two. Then by using the bio-mass leftovers you are not creating new soil and disrupting the ecological balance of the microorganisms in the soil. Something that’s really bad.
...
As Carl Sagan once said, extraordinary claims need require extraordinary evidence. I’m not saying I don’t believe you, it’s just you have not provided the extraordinary evidence.
Ahh yes, the Dutch sugar cane fields, I remember it well. Where is it that they stand in global sugar cane production? Just behind Brazil ?
Duck Duck, Brasil and bio fuel , or sugar.
Duck Duck, Brasil and bio fuel , or sugar.That's the traditional way of doing it I believe: sugar and yeast. Nctnico was talking about some new way of converting plant waste (i.e. mostly cellulose) into alcohol. There have been several proposed processes for how to do that, but there wasn't any successful operational factories that I knew of. The question is how efficient that poet-dsm process is, if it can produce enough fuel to replace gas and at what price.
How do you convert waste plant material to bio fuel?
I know there are many ideas out there, but is there any factories doing this commercially? (please provide links if so).
Otherwise I don't see how that is any different than solar storage solutions (better batteries, etc).See poet-dsm.com (the DSM part is Dutch) but there are other companies as well who have a working process.
https://www.energy.gov/eere/bioenergy/poet-dsm-project-libertyHow many liters/m^2 of bio fuel do they produce in a year?
How do you convert waste plant material to bio fuel?
I know there are many ideas out there, but is there any factories doing this commercially? (please provide links if so).
Otherwise I don't see how that is any different than solar storage solutions (better batteries, etc).See poet-dsm.com (the DSM part is Dutch) but there are other companies as well who have a working process.
https://www.energy.gov/eere/bioenergy/poet-dsm-project-liberty.
Friend we have loooked and yes they are doing it, but they are not saying how successful our profitable it is from them. Yes other companies are doing the same thing, but they are struggling with it and having issues.
You also appear to be mixing-up what the Dutch are doing and somehow implying it’s the same thing as what they are doing in Brazil. At first you were talking about usain sugar cane and now you are talking about the bio-mass leftovers. You do realize there is an enormous energy difference between the two. Then by using the bio-mass leftovers you are not creating new soil and disrupting the ecological balance of the microorganisms in the soil. Something that’s really bad.
How do you convert waste plant material to bio fuel?
I know there are many ideas out there, but is there any factories doing this commercially? (please provide links if so).
Otherwise I don't see how that is any different than solar storage solutions (better batteries, etc).See poet-dsm.com (the DSM part is Dutch) but there are other companies as well who have a working process.
https://www.energy.gov/eere/bioenergy/poet-dsm-project-liberty.
Friend we have loooked and yes they are doing it, but they are not saying how successful our profitable it is from them. Yes other companies are doing the same thing, but they are struggling with it and having issues.
You also appear to be mixing-up what the Dutch are doing and somehow implying it’s the same thing as what they are doing in Brazil. At first you were talking about usain sugar cane and now you are talking about the bio-mass leftovers. You do realize there is an enormous energy difference between the two. Then by using the bio-mass leftovers you are not creating new soil and disrupting the ecological balance of the microorganisms in the soil. Something that’s really bad.
Sorry just not seeing the same optimistic results you or any of the companies you are talking about are seeing. You say you have done the calculations, let’s see your calculations. I have seen the calculcations others have made and they are no where near as optimistic as yours are.
As Calrl Segan once said, extrodanary claims need require extrodanary evidense. I’m not saying I don’t beleive you, it’s just you have not provided the extrodanary evidence.
How do you convert waste plant material to bio fuel?
I know there are many ideas out there, but is there any factories doing this commercially? (please provide links if so).
Otherwise I don't see how that is any different than solar storage solutions (better batteries, etc).See poet-dsm.com (the DSM part is Dutch) but there are other companies as well who have a working process.
https://www.energy.gov/eere/bioenergy/poet-dsm-project-libertyHow many liters/m^2 of bio fuel do they produce in a year?From this link: https://www.energy.gov/eere/bioenergy/poet-dsm-project-liberty 20 to 25 million gallons. And I assume this is the goal for 2018 so we'll probably know how much they produced soon.
How do you convert waste plant material to bio fuel?
I know there are many ideas out there, but is there any factories doing this commercially? (please provide links if so).
Otherwise I don't see how that is any different than solar storage solutions (better batteries, etc).See poet-dsm.com (the DSM part is Dutch) but there are other companies as well who have a working process.
https://www.energy.gov/eere/bioenergy/poet-dsm-project-libertyHow many liters/m^2 of bio fuel do they produce in a year?From this link: https://www.energy.gov/eere/bioenergy/poet-dsm-project-liberty 20 to 25 million gallons. And I assume this is the goal for 2018 so we'll probably know how much they produced soon.
How do you convert waste plant material to bio fuel?
I know there are many ideas out there, but is there any factories doing this commercially? (please provide links if so).
Otherwise I don't see how that is any different than solar storage solutions (better batteries, etc).See poet-dsm.com (the DSM part is Dutch) but there are other companies as well who have a working process.
https://www.energy.gov/eere/bioenergy/poet-dsm-project-liberty.
Friend we have loooked and yes they are doing it, but they are not saying how successful our profitable it is from them. Yes other companies are doing the same thing, but they are struggling with it and having issues.
You also appear to be mixing-up what the Dutch are doing and somehow implying it’s the same thing as what they are doing in Brazil. At first you were talking about usain sugar cane and now you are talking about the bio-mass leftovers. You do realize there is an enormous energy difference between the two. Then by using the bio-mass leftovers you are not creating new soil and disrupting the ecological balance of the microorganisms in the soil. Something that’s really bad.No, you didn't look into it. Or it didn't sink in. Your comment is allover the place. It is like I told you to go straight ahead and you went left-right-left-left-right-right.
All the information and data is right here on these websites.
poet-dsm.com
https://www.energy.gov/eere/bioenergy/poet-dsm-project-liberty
Read first (that is your homework) and then comment in a sensible way.
How do you convert waste plant material to bio fuel?
I know there are many ideas out there, but is there any factories doing this commercially? (please provide links if so).
Otherwise I don't see how that is any different than solar storage solutions (better batteries, etc).See poet-dsm.com (the DSM part is Dutch) but there are other companies as well who have a working process.
https://www.energy.gov/eere/bioenergy/poet-dsm-project-libertyHow many liters/m^2 of bio fuel do they produce in a year?From this link: https://www.energy.gov/eere/bioenergy/poet-dsm-project-liberty 20 to 25 million gallons. And I assume this is the goal for 2018 so we'll probably know how much they produced soon.That doesn't answer the question.
nctnico in the United States we had a “salesmen” who came up with he following line for customers looking at his product... “There’s a sucker born every minute.”
You are reading this marketing crud and not realizing The document is filled with marketing words, and not engineering/scientific terms. When a document uses phrases such as, “can provide” or “may produce” they all sound positive. But at the same time the words “might not” could be substituted.
nctnico in the United States we had a “salesmen” who came up with he following line for customers looking at his product... “There’s a sucker born every minute.”
You are reading this marketing crud and not realizing The document is filled with marketing words, and not engineering/scientific terms. When a document uses phrases such as, “can provide” or “may produce” they all sound positive. But at the same time the words “might not” could be substituted.That may be but POET's and DSM's shareholders will be utterly dissapointed if they don't pull it off after investing 200 million dollars. The losses should have been cut sooner. All in all it looks to me like the process is working. We'll just have to wait until there is some news about how much they managed to produce in 2018 and where they are going in 2019.
My Google-fu is excellent. Just Google DSM and biofuels.
https://www.dsm.com/corporate/about/business-entities/dsm-biobased-productsandservices.html
We'll just have to wait until there is some news about how much they managed to produce in 2018 and where they are going in 2019.
We'll just have to wait until there is some news about how much they managed to produce in 2018 and where they are going in 2019.The same could be said about several storage solutions, there is a lot of hype about flow batteries for example.
There are also commercially available flow batteries being tried now, we'll just have to wait until there is some news about their performance.
Anyone else reading nctnico’s documents and realize the Dutch company is NOT the one converting cane sugar or corn into ethanol? All they are doing is working on an EZ bale system for sorting and collecting collecting corn stover.
In the document nctnico provided it’s clearly stated what the Dutch company is doing to maximizing bio-refinery production with EZ Bales.
Does anyone see anything that says the Dutch compouny is even in the business for converting bio-mass into bio-fuel? If so, I can’t find it.
Once the collected corn stover arrives at Project LIBERTY, it is weighed, documented, and stored in the stack yard or brought directly to the Biomass Building for immediate processing. The corn stover begins processing by undergoing a series of physical and passive pretreatment processes that start to break down its rigid cell walls so that the basic sugar components can be extracted and fermented. The resulting product is then distilled into 200-proof ethanol, denatured, and shipped to refiners for blending with gasoline. The portion of the corn stover (primarily lignin) that cannot be converted to biofuel is used to generate the thermal power needed by Project LIBERTY—and much of that power required by the adjacent corn ethanol plant.
Project LIBERTY was strategically situated right next to POET’s existing first-generation corn ethanol plant in Emmetsburg to share energy, land, rail spurs/roadways, storage, feedstock supply network, and personnel. Once this novel production technology is fine-tuned, POET intends to adopt it in at the other 27 corn ethanol plants it operates in North America. The integrated technology package is also being licensed for use around the globe.
There are also commercially available flow batteries being tried now, we'll just have to wait until there is some news about their performance.POET-DSM seems to be near the target performance almost two years ago:
https://www.dsm.com/corporate/media/informationcenter-news/2017/02/2017-02-16-poet-dsm-plans-on-site-enzyme-manufacturing-facility-at-project-liberty.html
Anyone else reading nctnico’s documents and realize the Dutch company is NOT the one converting cane sugar or corn into ethanol? All they are doing is working on an EZ bale system for sorting and collecting collecting corn stover.
In the document nctnico provided it’s clearly stated what the Dutch company is doing to maximizing bio-refinery production with EZ Bales.
Does anyone see anything that says the Dutch compouny is even in the business for converting bio-mass into bio-fuel? If so, I can’t find it.This paragraph seems to indicate that they use distillation to produce ethanol from corn stover, but english isn't my main language either:QuoteOnce the collected corn stover arrives at Project LIBERTY, it is weighed, documented, and stored in the stack yard or brought directly to the Biomass Building for immediate processing. The corn stover begins processing by undergoing a series of physical and passive pretreatment processes that start to break down its rigid cell walls so that the basic sugar components can be extracted and fermented. The resulting product is then distilled into 200-proof ethanol, denatured, and shipped to refiners for blending with gasoline. The portion of the corn stover (primarily lignin) that cannot be converted to biofuel is used to generate the thermal power needed by Project LIBERTY—and much of that power required by the adjacent corn ethanol plant.
Project LIBERTY was strategically situated right next to POET’s existing first-generation corn ethanol plant in Emmetsburg to share energy, land, rail spurs/roadways, storage, feedstock supply network, and personnel. Once this novel production technology is fine-tuned, POET intends to adopt it in at the other 27 corn ethanol plants it operates in North America. The integrated technology package is also being licensed for use around the globe.https://www.energy.gov/eere/bioenergy/poet-dsm-project-liberty