QuoteCars are already aerodynamic, car companies did that about 15 years ago by lowering the roof lineNot really.
Cars may be more aerodynamic, but cars grew higher larger and longer over the years. Each generation of a given car grows a few centimeters in each direction, as well as many kilos. That compensates the efficiency gains of engines, so that gas mileage is maily stagnant since 15 years.QuoteMost car engines are only about 25% efficient, with the best commercial designs topping out at around 40%.Nope.
A car engine is 25%(gas) to 40%(diesel) efficient. But only at one specific load point (rpm, torque). That load point is typically when applying full throttle. At any other load points, it's 5-10% only.
In a real wolrd use, on the road, the efficiency of the engine in a car is 13% for gas, 18% for diesel.
The nice thing is there's a lot of saving potential: As a start, take the gas and diesel, burn it in an electrical plant, (Gas turbine engine), charge your BEV with that.
With the same amount of diesel or gas, you will get 2.5 times the mileage, and a much cleaner combustion !!!
Real world numbers. No contest. And that's with 100% fossil electricity, which never happens in practice, so it will be even much better as you add more renewables.
The fossil power plant gets over 45% efficiency(at all times), the BEV+charger + grid is 80%(at all times).
You can also prove this by looking at CO2 emissions and then you'll see a downsized ICE will have lower CO2 emissions compared to power plant + EV.Compare modern to modern, with a modern coal plant this simply isn't true.Numbers? And please no efficiency numbers which came out of a dark hole. Only the CO2 emissions count. Google (results) tells me that electricity made by burning coal produces between 900 to 1200 grams of CO2 per kWh which puts an EV between 225 to 300 gr of CO2 per km.In turn I simplify the argument for the other side;
To get 1kilo of Fuel to a petrol station, it takes anything from 2kg (North Sea Brent) to over 5kg (tar sands) of fuel to get it there: Extraction, transport, burnt off unrifinables, waste, boil off, refining, warming or cooling for pumping, loading, transport, boil off during sea passage, unloading, pumping, truck transport, pumping to final storage, evaporation in tank (petrol in hot weather) etc. All energy intensive processes. A few criminally dirty.
And yeah, good luck on finding accurate figures as these are considered precious insider information, that can give critical bargaining situational awareness.
Comparing apples to apples IC to electric is basically impossible beyond general figures.
You can also prove this by looking at CO2 emissions and then you'll see a downsized ICE will have lower CO2 emissions compared to power plant + EV.Compare modern to modern, with a modern coal plant this simply isn't true.Numbers? And please no efficiency numbers which came out of a dark hole. Only the CO2 emissions count. Google (results) tells me that electricity made by burning coal produces between 900 to 1200 grams of CO2 per kWh which puts an EV between 225 to 300 gr of CO2 per km.In turn I simplify the argument for the other side;
To get 1kilo of Fuel to a petrol station, it takes anything from 2kg (North Sea Brent) to over 5kg (tar sands) of fuel to get it there: Extraction, transport, burnt off unrifinables, waste, boil off, refining, warming or cooling for pumping, loading, transport, boil off during sea passage, unloading, pumping, truck transport, pumping to final storage, evaporation in tank (petrol in hot weather) etc. All energy intensive processes. A few criminally dirty.
And yeah, good luck on finding accurate figures as these are considered precious insider information, that can give critical bargaining situational awareness.
Comparing apples to apples IC to electric is basically impossible beyond general figures.
One can not get accurate numbers as each oil filed produces varying amounts of hydrocarbon chains. Gas is just one the many products for crude. Over 100 years ago gas was a waste products and was dumped into streams to get rid of it.
That’s why we must focus on the last link, the actual vehicle.
You have no idea if electricity is from offshore wind or a lignite plant, much the same way your petrol could be from light crude or tar sands.
I humbly suggest we focus this discussion from distribution down (HGV tankers for fuel, high tension cables for electric), otherwise this will go nowhere.
lets do it again, latest Golf GTI has 125+ g/km CO2
Can your provide some credible documentation to support your claims. Are you sure that's not for carbonator cars? It's my understanding with modern engines which are computer controlled are always burning the fuel with nearly 100% efficiency.
Funny fact : the e-golf consumes 16.01 kWh/100km, practically the same than the leaf, and allows a direct comparison with the gasoline golf !!!
https://www.spritmonitor.de/en/overview/50-Volkswagen/452-Golf.html?fueltype=5&powerunit=2
You are one person.... What about the rest of the almost 8 billion people in the world?
2/3 of the world population do not live in an industrial nation. They are facing other problems. They don't think about cars, they think about food and a better life.
Cars would bring them clean drinking water, food, and the opportunity for a better life.
EPA ratings are very very very biased. The're wrong because of the loopholes build in the tests.
The EPA ratings are based on several real human drivers going through several real life driving scenarios. This is completely different compared to the lab tests the NEDC is using
What’s shown here is the City cycle. The total test time is 1874 seconds (31 minutes), covering a distance of 11 miles at an average speed of 21 miles per hour, and a maximum 56 miles/hr speed. The test is not performed on a road, but in a lab with the car strapped to a dynamometer.
The EPA ratings are based on several real human drivers going through several real life driving scenarios. This is completely different compared to the lab tests the NEDC is usinghttps://greentransportation.info/ev-charging/range-confidence/chap5-ev-range/epa-estimates.htmlQuoteWhat’s shown here is the City cycle. The total test time is 1874 seconds (31 minutes), covering a distance of 11 miles at an average speed of 21 miles per hour, and a maximum 56 miles/hr speed. The test is not performed on a road, but in a lab with the car strapped to a dynamometer.Yeah 30 minutes on a dynamometer. No Braking, no heater, A/C, radio, lights, no power steering needed, idealized Cv.....
So much for real driving.
So while everyone is arguing over the next great thing, I'll drive my electric car, powered by a utility that is 90% hydro-electric. Not everyone has that option, but given I do, it seems like a good plan.
You are one person.... What about the rest of the almost 8 billion people in the world?
Around here those new electric scooters are taking over the world. People can get take them on the underground so it doesn't matter if they have a mile of travel at each end, they just scoot. It also helps that in the last two years they've added a cycle lane to most of the roads around town.
A gallon of gas is considered equal to about 33.7 kWh of battery power
Around here those new electric scooters are taking over the world. People can get take them on the underground so it doesn't matter if they have a mile of travel at each end, they just scoot. It also helps that in the last two years they've added a cycle lane to most of the roads around town.That is no surprise because electric scooters make sense. But maybe you are referring to foldable electrical bycicles because a scooter is large and heavy (>100kg) which would make it hard to bring into an underground station.
Yep, it's probably more realistic than NEDC or EU cycles, but it's nearly impossible to get reproducible results on a real road.
Anyway, let's take the comparison LEAF/Golf based on EPA:
According to EPA, the leaf gets 112 MPGe. An electric gallon, what a strage unit this is
let's see what that is :
My ICE can get 100 MPG every day of the week. And not only that I can get my ICE car to move without using any gas. It's got to be true because I'm saying so and it's on the Internet, right? And I can make the same modification to your car. Just meet me at the top of a mountain and I will prove to you it's possible.
Preposterous!
Around here those new electric scooters are taking over the
The MPGe is some kind of fantasy unit based on the average US car fuel consumption (which is high). Needless to say it has no meaning at all from a scientific point of view.
The MPGe is some kind of fantasy unit based on the average US car fuel consumption (which is high). Needless to say it has no meaning at all from a scientific point of view.A gallon of gasoline is equivalent to 33.41kWh purely based on the energy contained in it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_gallon_equivalent
QuoteCars would bring them clean drinking water, food, and the opportunity for a better life.Drinking water is usually carried in pipes.
Food is carried on trucks.
The opportunity for a better life starts with a bicycle for them usually.
Ain't no cars in that model.
The first use of cars happens usually with shared taxis replacing missing busses in a big part of the world.
So while everyone is arguing over the next great thing, I'll drive my electric car, powered by a utility that is 90% hydro-electric. Not everyone has that option, but given I do, it seems like a good plan.
You are one person.... What about the rest of the almost 8 billion people in the world?
Around here those new electric scooters are taking over the world. People can get take them on the underground so it doesn't matter if they have a mile of travel at each end, they just scoot. It also helps that in the last two years they've added a cycle lane to most of the roads around town.
I'll be getting one soon (hopefully!). I'm just selling some stuff on eBay to pay for one. :-)