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Yes.. Well.. not just Chinese... Taiwanese... Vietnamese... Mexican... Malaysia.... Thailand...
Trust me. It's made entirely in the United States, down to the glue that hold it together. It's one of the requirements in military aviation, civilian space, and military space industry, and also strategic nuclear industry. Thermonuclear weapons, delivery vehicles, etc. In case of war everything has to be replenished and made at home.
If the F-35 was entirely made in US of A... you would be having a few more 0s added at the end , to the existing cost of the plane...
Meanwhile. Entertain this idea. Tomorrow China takes Taiwan. This is going to happen anyway, Taiwan is Chinese territory. What is going to happen to semiconductor industry? Frankly, what is going to happen to America? It's one of those that's all folks scenarios.
America would be at the mercy of China, in her feet, begging China not to close oxygen.
I hope now you see a national security threat when it comes to semiconductors being made in Taiwan. It's nice and fine meanwhile, but if things get hard tomorrow, America will be hit really hard. -
What is to stop, people/businesses/entities etc, buying the stuff, e.g. originally from China, or a car they want, with huge tariffs, if bought in the usual way, via Russia, or other countries. Then by the time it reaches the US, possibly by the container load, getting 0% tariffs?
I.e. It gets **whitewashed** (or so the modern expression goes, as I understand it).
In other words, like the 1920s/early30s prohibition, where lots of people, just defeat the new law(s), in various ways, making it somewhat unenforceable.
Edit:
It would be dishonest/criminal, so I'm NOT recommending it. But being realistic, if there is money/profit to be made. There can be people, who are willing to do it.
This is a common problem with country of origin rules... I can't remember the company name now, but you used to be able to buy ~£500 hot air rework stations from a French company, that were "Made in France", on Farnell. It was very obvious that these were just rebadged Atten hot air units that could be had for under £100 normally. These were made in China. In order for something to be designated as being "made" in that country it has to undergo a substantial transformation there. Simply adding a logo is not usually enough. Perhaps, the French company was dismantling each unit and reassembling it, but somehow I doubt that. Perhaps they were testing and calibrating the units. We may never know. Whatever they were just doing, it would be to get around supply chain rules that some companies have where they will not buy tools from China, or have to source European kit, or something like that.
Some companies do it for entirely different reasons. Ford used to import Transit vans with seats in them from their Turkish factory into the US. Passenger vans had lower tariffs than cargo vans, and Ford did not want to set up a production facility for vans in the US as it's a small market compared to pickup trucks. The vans were stripped of their interior once they were in the US, and then sold on as cargo vans, effectively bypassing the rules. Presumably, they had the bare minimum interior inside them to comply with the definition of "passenger vehicle". A similar case exists with the Subaru BRAT where the rear plastic bench seat was installed, with carpets and seat-belts, but designed to be trivially removed; this classified the BRAT as a passenger vehicle, and attracted a much lower tax. Customers were expected to remove the seats themselves (simply bolted to the chassis), as they were intentionally barely usable, but a few examples with the seats remain.
Thanks, that is an interesting set of stories.
I remember, from a while back, that digital cameras (and similar), which had video recording capabilities. Suddenly had maximum time limits on the recordings, somewhere in the region of 5 minutes to 30 minutes, depending on the specific manufacturer.
Which was (strongly rumored), to be, to avoid getting an extra tariff (or similar), added to it, because it could then be classed as a camcorder, if it freely recorded, unlimited length video.
I think in many countries, the various common engine sizes, such as just below 2 litres, or 1.8 litres etc. Were to ensure the vehicles, got classed at a lower tax charge band/rate.
(Not strictly tariff/tax related), but I remember, in the UK, a while ago, when, if you bought certain software products, they would include some kind of extra (un-needed), very small/light (cheap to post), hardware item(s), such as a few screws and washers, or something. So that they can sell (class) it as OEM software/licenses, to get round rules, which sort of forced them to do it that way.
It did seem rather silly though. (IIRC, I may have got the details a bit wrong, but it was something along those lines).
Edit:
I think I remember the details better now. It was something like, the stand alone (non-OEM) retail version of windows (at that time, in the past), was something like $150.
But only $50, to install it on a new computer.
So, they would sell you the OEM version for $50, but have to include some extremely cheap item of PC hardware or similar, so that they can count it as OEM sales. -
I do not think that the US can go on forever with increasing the national debt and increasing the trade imbalance.
The current administration tried to alleviate these problems in the last Trump Administration. They attempted to do things slowly and in the "normal" way. Their efforts were assailed viciously from all sides. Now they (the Trump Admin) are going very aggressively after what they think is correct for the country.
Tariffs are quite odious things but the rest of the world uses them, targeting US products, so why not level the playing field? Maybe the other countries taxing US goods will become more reasonable. That would be a good outcome.
There is also the question of National Security, where certain things need to be made in your own country, at least in some quantity.
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Yes.. Well.. not just Chinese... Taiwanese... Vietnamese... Mexican... Malaysia.... Thailand...
Trust me. It's made entirely in the United States, down to the glue that hold it together. It's one of the requirements in military aviation, civilian space, and military space industry, and also strategic nuclear industry. Thermonuclear weapons, delivery vehicles, etc. In case of war everything has to be replenished and made at home.
If the F-35 was entirely made in US of A... you would be having a few more 0s added at the end , to the existing cost of the plane...
I have trust issues.
https://www.government.nl/topics/commissariat-for-military-production/orders-in-the-f-35-programme-jsf -
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but the rest of the world uses them, targeting US products, so why not level the playing field
Indeed they do,but for a level playing field you dont class stuff like vat as a tariff as it dont just apply to one country, everybody pays it. -
Yes.. Well.. not just Chinese... Taiwanese... Vietnamese... Mexican... Malaysia.... Thailand...
Trust me. It's made entirely in the United States, down to the glue that hold it together. It's one of the requirements in military aviation, civilian space, and military space industry, and also strategic nuclear industry. Thermonuclear weapons, delivery vehicles, etc. In case of war everything has to be replenished and made at home.
If the F-35 was entirely made in US of A... you would be having a few more 0s added at the end , to the existing cost of the plane...
I have trust issues.
https://www.government.nl/topics/commissariat-for-military-production/orders-in-the-f-35-programme-jsf
While we are referring to Netherlands... and to answer @u666sa Nothing will happen... I just mentioned other places that have foundries capable of manufacturing...Meanwhile.. what happens if Netherlands refuses to cooperate with US ... In case you were wondering.. its not just the places that have foundries.. its the tech behind them which is far more critical.. and bing.. bing.. bing.... ASML controls the tech space there.. Its far faster and expedient to retool existing foundries in the rest of Asia... so yeah.. all this is just smoke and mirrors show.. -
but the rest of the world uses them, targeting US products, so why not level the playing field? Maybe the other countries taxing US goods will become more reasonable.
True. Next time the inhabitants of McDonald Islands, primarily penguins, should think twice before taxing US goods. -
The four most dangerous words in finance are "This time, it's different."
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The four most dangerous words in finance are "This time, it's different."
The three most dangerous words anywhere are "Trust me bro." -
It's amazing that all this sails under "Republican Party". In the past those people were always talking about reducing government by reducing taxes. Now the exact opposite.
This time they are reducing industry and trade by increasing taxes. In german TV an expert said that Trumps reasoning is somewhat surprising, inaccurate and includes plain lies. Probably they just want to create chaos in the US in order to introduce emergency measures that can in the end terminate democracy.
As far as i understand, for the time being the US internal market is affected most. Remains to be seen what changes for everybody else. Of course prices at Digikey and Mouser will rise soon, as they mostly sell imported parts.
Regards, Dieter -
It's amazing that all this sails under "Republican Party". In the past those people were always talking about reducing government by reducing taxes. Now the exact opposite.
This time they are reducing industry and trade by increasing taxes. In german TV an expert said that Trumps reasoning is somewhat surprising, inaccurate and includes plain lies. Probably they just want to create chaos in the US in order to introduce emergency measures that can in the end terminate democracy.
As far as i understand, for the time being the US internal market is affected most. Remains to be seen what changes for everybody else. Of course prices at Digikey and Mouser will rise soon, as they mostly sell imported parts.
The tariffs will be paid to the US Government. The increased prices will be paid by all people living in the US. The money raised by the tariffs can be used to reduce taxes for those people that pay taxes.
Chaos and disorder are liked by hedge funds. Follow the money to see who funded Trump and company. -
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Chaos and disorder are liked by hedge funds. Follow the money to see who funded Trump and company.
yep,lots off money to be made by anyone shorting the markets -
It's just an observation based on the UK mainstream media. It's flooded with Trump lies about this, that and the other, more than our very own prime minister who has reneged on most of his election pledges.The amount of fake news and misinformation that Trump has spread, as an excuse for the tariffs, is beyond imagination.
He doesn't appear to be any worse than any other politician making up nonsense to justify their policies. I just find it odd how people get more upset about it when he does it.
I thought people get less upset about it when he lies. He took "I can tell when a politician is lying because I see their lips moving" from an insulting dig to a mere statement of fact. That's amazing. But he can say the exact opposite thing a day later and not appear to recall the prior statement at all. I really think he does know he's lying but I am convinced he doesn't suffer the internal guilt or shame which stops most people from lying.
The same could be said for other disastrous government policies such as as the COVID response, which benefited big business such as supermarkets, as many of their competitors were forced to close.It's amazing that all this sails under "Republican Party". In the past those people were always talking about reducing government by reducing taxes. Now the exact opposite.
This time they are reducing industry and trade by increasing taxes. In german TV an expert said that Trumps reasoning is somewhat surprising, inaccurate and includes plain lies. Probably they just want to create chaos in the US in order to introduce emergency measures that can in the end terminate democracy.
As far as i understand, for the time being the US internal market is affected most. Remains to be seen what changes for everybody else. Of course prices at Digikey and Mouser will rise soon, as they mostly sell imported parts.
The tariffs will be paid to the US Government. The increased prices will be paid by all people living in the US. The money raised by the tariffs can be used to reduce taxes for those people that pay taxes.
Chaos and disorder are liked by hedge funds. Follow the money to see who funded Trump and company.
On the other hand, big businesses and rich people pay tariffs. They're one of the hardest taxes to avoid. No doubt some will profit. There are always winners and losers. -
Yes.. Well.. not just Chinese... Taiwanese... Vietnamese... Mexican... Malaysia.... Thailand...
Trust me. It's made entirely in the United States, down to the glue that hold it together. It's one of the requirements in military aviation, civilian space, and military space industry, and also strategic nuclear industry. Thermonuclear weapons, delivery vehicles, etc. In case of war everything has to be replenished and made at home.
If the F-35 was entirely made in US of A... you would be having a few more 0s added at the end , to the existing cost of the plane...
I have trust issues.
https://www.government.nl/topics/commissariat-for-military-production/orders-in-the-f-35-programme-jsf
Indeed, clearly this person knows next to nothing about such matters. A great deal of the F-35 is made by NATO members other than the US, and also other countries, such as Australia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning_II -
It was, it was a, it was a, a, joke, son. To point out their misspelling.
It's "tariff". One R, two Fs, easy mistake to make. Not sure what a "misspledding" is, I suspect you may be misspelling it. Perhaps you could take some primary English lessons.100% tarrif is better
Don't you know how to write proper English?thenthan that policy
(Never mind that other misspledding.)
Obvious to anyone who's not a pedant. -
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It's flooded with Trump lies about this, that and the other, more than our very own prime minister who has reneged on most of his election pledges.
There is a vast difference between straight-up lying and 'reneging' on manifesto pledges (even if you ignore the fact that things now are very different from when that manifesto was proposed). -
It was, it was a, it was a, a, joke, son. To point out their misspelling.
It's "tariff". One R, two Fs, easy mistake to make. Not sure what a "misspledding" is, I suspect you may be misspelling it. Perhaps you could take some primary English lessons.100% tarrif is better
Don't you know how to write proper English?thenthan that policy
(Never mind that other misspledding.)
Obvious to anyone who's not a pedant.
Written by one who tends to be pedantic about others' spelling. -
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There is a vast difference between straight-up lying and 'reneging' on manifesto pledges
As the old saying go's "There are lies, damn lies and election manifestos " -
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There is a vast difference between straight-up lying and 'reneging' on manifesto pledges
As the old saying go's "There are lies, damn lies and election manifestos "
(Not quite; it should be ... and ADC/DAC specifications.)
If we were to believe you, then clearly the best alternative is a dictator that is "on my side". The practical limitations with that approach are obvious, and sufficient to completely disqualify it from any consideration.
Amazingly, Trump is currently demonstrating a limitation I hadn't considered, but that's because I didn't know his techniques in detail. -
There is a big difference in manufacturing for the military, and manufacturing for the consumer mass market.Yes.. Well.. not just Chinese... Taiwanese... Vietnamese... Mexican... Malaysia.... Thailand...
Trust me. It's made entirely in the United States, down to the glue that hold it together. It's one of the requirements in military aviation, civilian space, and military space industry, and also strategic nuclear industry. Thermonuclear weapons, delivery vehicles, etc. In case of war everything has to be replenished and made at home.
If the F-35 was entirely made in US of A... you would be having a few more 0s added at the end , to the existing cost of the plane...
In the interests of national security, the military can usually afford to pay a premium on US made semiconductors. The average consumer cannot.
It is the military premium that keeps specialised niche semiconductor manufacturing in business. They would go broke if they attempted to supply the consumer market. -
A rational assessment and application of tariffs might indeed make sense.
Tariffs are quite odious things but the rest of the world uses them, targeting US products, so why not level the playing field? Maybe the other countries taxing US goods will become more reasonable. That would be a good outcome.
However as evidenced by Heard Island, there is clearly nothing rational about the current tariff plan. -
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If we were to believe you, then clearly the best alternative is a dictator that is "on my side".
Or make manifestos legally binding,fail to do what you promised and that party is not allowed to stand for the next election or 2 along with a hefty fine -
Probably. ASML will push the kill-switch on the lithography machines at TSMC located in Taiwan and China is massively screwed because without those semiconductors they can't produce any complex electronics.Yes.. Well.. not just Chinese... Taiwanese... Vietnamese... Mexican... Malaysia.... Thailand...
Trust me. It's made entirely in the United States, down to the glue that hold it together. It's one of the requirements in military aviation, civilian space, and military space industry, and also strategic nuclear industry. Thermonuclear weapons, delivery vehicles, etc. In case of war everything has to be replenished and made at home.
If the F-35 was entirely made in US of A... you would be having a few more 0s added at the end , to the existing cost of the plane...
Meanwhile. Entertain this idea. Tomorrow China takes Taiwan. This is going to happen anyway, Taiwan is Chinese territory. What is going to happen to semiconductor industry? Frankly, what is going to happen to America? It's one of those that's all folks scenarios.
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Probably. ASML will push the kill-switch on the lithography machines at TSMC located in Taiwan and China is massively screwed because without those semiconductors they can't produce any complex electronics.
So you think the Chinese are incapable of developing that lithography on their own? They're not exactly technological cripples, you know.
BTW, ASML = Advanced Semiconductor Materials Lithography, for those who didn't know (like me before I looked it up) -
Probably. ASML will push the kill-switch on the lithography machines at TSMC located in Taiwan and China is massively screwed because without those semiconductors they can't produce any complex electronics.
Wouldn't even need to do that. The machines require a near constant supply of spare parts. Light engines last about 500 hours for instance. So even if China can keep them going for 6 months, they won't be able to run for much longer than that.